The Turin Shroud, which is believed by some Christians to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ, has gone on display for the first time in 10 years.
The shroud is expected to draw some two million visitors to the northern Italian city over the next few weeks.
The cloth shows the faint image of a bearded man with stains of blood on his hands and feet.
Tests in 1988 suggested it dated from the medieval period but those carbon dating findings are contested.
Measuring just over 4m x 1m (14ft x 3.5ft), the frail linen sheet shows an image of a man's body complete with bloodstains and what appear to be wounds from crucifixion.
Millions of Christians believe the cloth is the burial shroud of Jesus.
In 1988, special tests dated it to between 1260 and 1390, suggesting it was a medieval forgery.
But since then, other scientists have cast doubt on those findings and appealed to the Vatican to allow new tests using more modern techniques.
Some two million people are expected to visit Turin Cathedral to see the shroud, which will be on public view for six weeks, kept in a bullet-proof and climate-controlled case.
Pope Benedict XVI is due to fly to Turin on 2 May to pray before the shroud.
via BBC News - Turin Shroud goes on display for first time in 10 years.
The Turin Shroud, said to be the burial cloth of Christ, was secretly hidden in a Benedictine abbey during the Second World War because the Vatican feared that Adolf Hitler wanted to steal it. -telegraph
Hitler wanting to steal the shroud makes sense because by his own words, Hitler was a Christian.
“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.”
( Adolf Hitler, from John Toland [Pulitzer Prize winner], Adolf Hitler, New York: Anchor Publishing, 1992, p. 507. )
“The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will.”
( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 562. )
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
( Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Ralph Mannheim, ed., New York: Mariner Books, 1999, p. 65. )
“My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. ...
( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Munich, April 12, 1922; from Norman H. Baynes, ed., The Speeches of Adolf Hitler: April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1, New York: Oxford University Press, 1942, pp. 19-20. )
“I say: my Christian feeling tells me that my lord and savior is a warrior. ... I am convinced that I am really a devil and not a Christian if I do not feel compassion and do not wage war, as Christ did two thousand years ago, against those who are steeling and exploiting these poverty-stricken people.
( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered on April 12, 1922; from Charles Bracelen Flood, Hitler: The Path to Power, Boston, Mass: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1989, pp. 261-262. )
“May God Almighty give our work His blessing, strengthen our purpose, and endow us with wisdom and the trust of our people, for we are fighting not for ourselves but for Germany.”
( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Berlin, February 1, 1933; from Adolf Hitler, My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, 1941, p. 147. )
“The judgment whether a people is virtuous or not virtuous can hardly be passed by a human being. That should be left to God.”
( Adolf Hitler, in a speech delivered at Wilhelmshaven, April 1, 1939; from Adolf Hitler, My New Order. New York: Reynal & Hitchcock, 1941, p. 621. )
- http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html
Is the Shroud of Turin from the time of Jesus? I think not because another shroud—radiocarbon-dated to between A.D. 1 and 50 is notably different:
The weave of the Tomb of the Shroud fabric, the new study says, casts further doubt on the Shroud of Turin as Jesus' burial cloth.
The newfound shroud was something of a patchwork of simply woven linen and wool textiles, the study found. The Shroud of Turin, by contrast, is made of a single textile woven in a complex twill pattern, a type of cloth not known to have been available in the region until medieval times, Gibson said. - nationalgeographic
22 comments:
Thanks so much for posting these quotes, Xeno. A great reminder of the tone and timbre of madness.
Republicans take note.
If Hitler was such a good Catholic why would he want to steal the shroud from the Catholic church?
The danger in Hitler's ideology is not Christianity but totalitarianism mixed in with some Nietzsche and Social Darwinist philosophy. Not to say that the Christians didn't have some blame coming its way but this post is a half truth.
I don't think I said Hitler was a good Catholic. I'd say he would qualify as the worst. Catholic. Ever.
But read his words. Hitler thought he was doing God's work. I find that shocking. If God existed, why did he not smite Hitler before so many died?
I suspect Darwin would be offended. Hitler was all about UNnatural selection. What you call social Darwinism is the ultimate misuse of the natural principle Darwin discovered.
Bah. This is bullcrap that the man called himself a Christian. No Christian would try to kill the Jewish people. He may have called himself a Christian, but he wasn't one.
And what's this Republican crap, your blathering about. It was the National Socialist's Workers Party, you know the thing only two notches to the left of Obama on the socialism scale.
Well, Hitler was an altar boy and called himself a Catholic. He was never excommunicated by Pope Pius XII, so he was a Christian as far as I understand the definition. A Christian is any person who professes belief in Jesus as the Christ or in the religion based on the teachings of Jesus. Is there some rule that you get an ipso facto excommunication for certain crimes? Christianity started as a Jewish sect so where did Hitler get his hatred of the Jews? Jesus was Jewish. Did Hitler know that?
None of this matters, of course. No one would judge Christians or Catholics by the actions of Hitler.
I should have used the term eugenics instead of Social Darwinism. I wasn't aware that it was a pejorative term. I stand corrected as well. Much respect Xeno and I really enjoy your blog.
I am a dedicated catholic,I feel impelled to give my testimony because one needs to witness to the truth where and when necessary. In 1981 i was very privileged to have had a vision of our lord Jesus Christ in a historic church that was dedicated to St Peter and St Paul,I saw our lords face,so sad,and the crown of thorns on his head so clear was this vision i could see the string of thorns encircled many times and the thorns so clear as if one would be pricked by them,I was totally awestruck and as you can imagine this vision took me from being a christian with many question marks to a fervent believer, after the vision i went to my mothers home when i went into her living room i told my mother of my wounderfull vision and was overwhelmed to discover that my mother had a copy of the shroud of turin on her wall,I immediately said to my mother ,this is Jesus Christ,this is who i saw actually as he is.It is him.The holy shroud image is that of Jesus Christ, I can't prove it but i would lay my life on this because it is true.I have since 1981 had many other experiences which have also confirmed to me the authenticity of the holy shroud and that it is of our Lord Jesus Christ.One day it will be recognised as true and venerated as the wonderful relic that it is, and i look forward to that day . Yours in Christ... Fred
Thanks Fred. Many people I've talked to about why they have their particular beliefs say they have had one or more "visions" along with a strong feeling of certainty. Can you be more specific about your experience? Did you vividly hallucinate the floating head of Jesus while in a church, or did you just see a painting on a wall? Did other people see it too? If I was there when you had your vision, what would I have seen? Were you looking up? Were your eyes closed? What people mean by "vision" turns out to be very different things.
Xeno I believe i have stated my experience of 1981 quite clearly,there was no hallucination as you put it, unless you consider ones view on others as an hallucination,the vision of Jesus Christ was clear and distinct no less clear or distinct than you i am sure would view others around you ,i have had many visions since,but with all due respect to you Xeno,if you believe that my first experience was an hallucination then nothing i say is going to change your view ,I respect your view naturally one cant just accept everything that is said as fact it is right to question things as you are, but with all due respect for your views you shauld also realise that there are others who see things differently, it is quite possible that had i not experienced what i have experienced, i might have also questioned like you have what i have experienced, im not the type of person to take things lightly,i believe i am perfectly rasional and see the world quite clearly, i will finnish now Xeno but my advice to you is just keep an open mind Yours in Christ Fred.
Help us to see it differently?
I'm not attacking you, I'm asking for more details.
You said, "I saw our lords face,so sad,and the crown of thorns on his head". Please go on...
Where were you looking when you had the vision?
What were you doing?
Were you praying with your eyes closed?
Looking at a candle? Standing, walking?
How long did it last?
If someone else was with you, would they have seen it too?
Where there any sounds or smells that went along with it?
Did Jesus speak to you in a telepathic voice asking you to stop eating red meat or anything?
What about these other visions? What are they like? What do you see?
I have once or twice been half way awake where part of my dream was comingled with waking reality. You say your experience was not dream-like? Ever have a lucid dream?
Xeno | am not attacking you either , but just ask yourself how you see the people you see in full contiuosness around you that is how i see the people in full contiousness around me, and the visions are no less vivid, I have had a wide range of experiences of which without faith you will not understand,as i said this is not an attack on you but i can clearly see by some of words you use you are clearly indifferent to what i have said,It doesnt bother me ,I expect It,like i said, before i had my vision of Jesus Christ in 1981,I Had many question marks over my faith the vision didnt change me as a person but it made me see the world differently on a spiritual level like many people i saw the supernatural as a kind of fairytale and i have no doubt you are probably of this way of thinking but it is not a fairytale its a fact but to understand this you need faith ,Xeno as i said previously,try to keep an open mind Yours in Christ Fred.
Once again you have not answered my questions.
Please try. You saw sad Jesus in a church in 1981 and he looked as real as everyone else, right? How did you first see him? What was he doing? What were you doing? How long did it last? How did it end?
Xeno, I have stated my views clear and to the point,the whys and the what fors there will allways be the believers and the disbelievers,i am not here to try and convert you as i am sure this would be pointless, as you clearly dont share my views ,why are you getting so uptight?,could it be that you might be proved wrong one day,remember Xeno ,disbelievers have allways been proved dead wrong if only at there final gong,why end it at that final date, then find out that your just to late.The choice is yours. Yours in Christ Fred.
I'm not asking about your views, I'm asking, with good humor and an open mind, about your experience. You were there. You brought it up. Unfortunately, you seem to have almost zero details (other than the crown) of what I would think would be the most important event of your life. You saw the son of god(!!) and you don't even recall if you were sitting or standing at the time? Did you fall asleep in the church and have a lucid dream? I don't know you, but you made an interesting claim. Just curious.
Xeon,With all due respect,you do not have an open mind,if you truly did,you would have studied every word i have said and acted with a ,mind of study and perseption,without an open mind you cant even start to understand what faith is about, if you truly want to know what jesus christ looked light, study the holy shroud of turin, both the positive and the negative,if this isnt enough for you then nothing i say or do is going to make the slightest difference,there was no lucid dream as you put it, I didnt fall asleep,i didnt have an hallusination,but then i have already stated all these facts . I have given my testimony as a statement,to repute the claims that, the holy shroud of turin is anything but the buriel shroud of Jesus Christ, and this would be a more positive debate,Study the shroud of turin especially the aspects that cannot be explained,photographic aspect that shows that when photographed the image of the man on the shroud is not to negative as is usually the case but to positive,baring in mind that even the dates the scientists give are clearly not accurate because the ability to create such image on agarment was not possible.these facts and many others that the scientists as yet cannot explain. I look forward to your views Xeno, yours in Christ. fred.
Go back and read what each of us actually said. I am slightly sarcastic but also genuinely curious. You've been clear as mud about your experience, but good luck in the future and thanks for trying.
I guess we are on different chanels of thought,thanks for your oppinions, best wishes,Yours in CHRIST,fred
Sorry, Hitler was still a Christian. I didn't say he was a good one, but that was his religion.
Neither term is pejorative. Social Darwinism and eugenics are not even slightly interchangeable terms. One refers to the idea that some socioeconomic/ethnic groups "naturally" rise to the top of the class structure, the other is the direct attempt to eliminate certain genetic traits while promoting the proliferation of other genetic traits.
Even the notorious Nazi SS had something to the effect that "God is on our side" inscribed on the uniform belt buckles, as I understand it.
We can use religious authority, scriptures or whatever in our favor, however blood thirsty or cruel we choose to be. Genghis Khan allowed freedom religion among the people he conquered and extracted tribute. Slave owners are well-known to support slavery by references to the Christian bible.
It's not religion or notions about God that makes us "good," that is, not harm one another, but merely the "love" we express to each other, which, by the way, covers the last 7 of the 10 commandments of Moses, which Jesus shortened quite simply to, in so many words, "love your neighbor as yourself." The first 3 deal with loving God.
Christianity isn't that complicated really, that is, if you focus on the Christ part of Christianity.
Like any franchise, it's subject to local management.
You'd be surprised. I know some people who condemn all of Christianity on the basis of what Hitler did, and I know at least one person who despises what the Bible teaches about the Church (i.e. the body of believers in Christ, not any particular denomination) because they equate it with Nazism. You can point out their errors, but they are convinced that they are in the right regardless of what evidence is brought against their views--- be it from Hitler himself (against Christianity), historians or the Bible (which contradicts Hitler).
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