Jansen - Mithras, oddly enough, has the same birthdate as Jesus, but some 600 years earlier! Not only that, but he was also born of a virgin, with a few shepherds present. Mithras, a traveling teacher and master, had 12 disciples as he performed miracles. Just like Jesus, Mithras was buried in a tomb, died, and after three days was resurrected and rose again! (It must be the way gods did things back then.)
Known as “the way,” “the Truth,” “the Light,” “the Redeemer,” “the Messiah,” “the Savior,” “the word,” “the Son of God,” and ”the Good Shepherd,” Mithras was sometimes pictured carrying a lamb on his shoulders. Sunday was sacred to the followers of Mithras and called it “the Lord’s Day”.
Mithraism hit Rome in the first century BC as the Mithraic cult fled Persia. Here it flourished as the Sun God Natalis Solis Invicti. The leader of this religion ruled from what is now Vatican hill, which is a place previously sacred to Mithras. This male leader was called Papa (which is how we get the word “Pope”). Books in honor of Mithras were called “Helio Biblia,” which translates to us as either “Sun Book” or “Holy Bible.”
... Horus was known as “the Way,” “the Fisher,” “the Truth,” “the Light,” “God’s Anointed Son,” “the Son of Man,” “the Good Shepherd,” “the Lamb of God,” and “the Word.” He was also was called “the KRST,” or “Anointed One.” (It is worth noting here that Christos means anointed in Greek.) There was a trinity with Horus: Atum the Father and Ra the Holy Spirit. Add Horus and we have the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In the later years of Horus, he had 12 disciples known as Har-Khuttie. Horus had an enemy (originally this was also the dark side of Horus, or his other face). This evil enemy was “Set” or “Sata.”
via Merry Mithras one and all.
The Encyclopaedia Britannica reports that "The traditional customs connected with Christmas have developed from several sources as a result of the coincidence of the celebration of the birth of Christ with the pagan agricultural and solar observations at midwinter. In the Roman world the Saturnalia (December 17) was a time of merrymaking and exchange of gifts. December 25 was also regarded as the birth date of the Iranian mystery god Mithra, the Sun of Righteousness."
Colliers Encyclopedia agrees. Quote: "After the triumph of Constantine, the church at Rome assigned December 25 as the date for the celebration of the feast, possibly about A.D. 320 or 353. By the end of the fourth century the whole Christian world was celebrating Christmas on that day, with the exception of the Eastern churches, where it was celebrated on January 6. The choice of December 25 was probably influenced by the fact that on this day the Romans celebrated the Mithraic feast of the Sun-god (natalis solis invicti), and that the Saturnalia also came at this time."
Both encyclopedias plainly reveal that the source of the celebration of December 25 is the birthday of Mithra, the pagan sun god.
via toolong.com
Mithras had twelve disciples. This appears to be derived from some iconography in the mithraea where the twelve symbols of the zodiac are arrayed around the scene of Mithras killing the bull. The connection between twelve disciples and twelve signs of the zodiac is made in the book The Jesus Mysteries and by Acharya S (D.Murdock)
via skepticwiki
Also see: Religoustolerance.org, todayperhaps.com, simpletoremember.com, associatedcontent.com, truthbeknown, vexen.co.uk, etc. Christianity absorbed the beliefs, customs and rituals of other tribes in order to gain followers.
I've been thinking about the word KRST. What is the deal with anointing back in the day?
It seems that holy stones were frequently anointed with oil. Weird. This is from "Folk-lore in the Old Testament: studies in comparative religion ..., Volume 2, By Sir James George Frazer:
The theology of Mithraism was centred upon the dying/rising Mithra, emerging fully grown from the ‘virgin dawn’ or rock. The association of gods with rocks or stones is not surprising: fiery rocks falling from the sky (meteorites) and even sparks released by colliding stones would equally strike the simple mind as ‘evidence’ of a godly presence. Holy stones were anointed with oil. ... - jesusneverexisted
How did being born from a rock get mingled with birth from a 'virgin dawn' ? People were really confused back then, about a great many things.
Christ was born of a Virgin; there is nothing to prove that the same was believed of Mithra born from the rock. - newadvent.org
Yeah but... Christ means "anointed one". And holy rocks were anointed with oil. And Mithras was born from a holy virgin rock cave.
Parallel: "Sipapu, a Hopi word, is a small hole or indentation in the floor of kivas used by the Ancient Pueblo Peoples and modern-day Puebloans. It symbolizes the portal through which their ancient ancestors first emerged to enter the present world."
Perhaps we have the words "O God", for God who is in the shape of an "O" or... as we like to call it these days, the Sun. ( see Psalm 84:9.)
28 comments:
Or perhaps we have the phrase for blasphemers to express incredulous exasperation.
And a happy Saturnalia!
Peace
Xeno - I'm a regular reader of this blog, and I love it. You seem to be a sharp guy. This, however, is bunk. Try to find an actual Mithraic scholar who thinks this. Actually, try to find a *primary* source on Mithras with any of these parallels. Not all - *any*.
Thanks for the observation! I did not research this one myself but found the post interesting and wanted see what reaction there is to it among the many brilliant minds visiting this neck of the web. I hope to have time one day to dig deeper.
Gathering all of the possibilities is the best first step if you want the truth. My view is that people were doing the best they could at the time to explain observable phenomena, and that religion is based not on pure fantasy, but on distorted interpretations ( the game of telephone) of misunderstandings, such as the planets being messengers of the gods (angels) because they wander in the sky compared to the stars.
:) Like that game where you whisper a phrase into the ear of the person next to you and then that person does the same and so on until after so many retellings, it is almost unrecognizable as the original phrase. Faction, would be a better term I guess, lol.
Peace
There are alot of theories of religion on offer right now in cog psy especially. The old "history of religions" idea of major religions, particularly Christianity, borrowing from pagan cults died a while back though. Frazer's _Golden Bough_ and Graves _16 Crucified Saviors_ are riddled with errors and exaggerations, and this sort of pattern-seeking in ancient religous tradition is now referred to as "parallelomania". There is Persian Mithraism and Roman Mithraism. The earlier Persian form, for which we actually have very little written evidence, is hardly similar to Christianity at all. The later Roman form was a competitor of Christianity and alot of the evidence we have for it comes later than the Christian evidence. If anyone can find a *significant* parallel in any of the primary sources, I would be impressed. This stuff about 12 disciples, virgin births - none of it is in the primary sources. It is found in kooky non-specialist works and youtube videos, but has no historical basis.
Here is an actual Mithraic scholar with a summary essay on the origins of Mithraism (also explains where Cumont's work went wrong):
http://www.well.com/~davidu/mithras.html
The Mithras parallels are in a much worse boat than "may not be all as claimed". For people who have studied Mithraism historically, they are outright fabrications. What seven archangels are you even talking about? Genesis and Gilgamesh are obviously related in many ways. I would not deny this. Mosaic law is more clearly related to Hammurabi than any principals of Maat but I'd be interested to see the research. But of course, Old Testament folklore and mythology does not have that much in common with the Gospels, which are an entirely different genre and time period. See the work of David E. Aune and Richard Burridge on the gospels as ancient Greek Bioi. Genre is important even in individual pericopae and aphorisms. Hyperbole is a stock Semitic trade and the usage of exaggeration is to be expected. But errors and exaggeration in works claiming to be *historical* descriptions of ancient texts (Frazer, Graves, etc.) is not expected or acceptable. That is the point. We can't just make up lies about ancient religions (e.g. they borrowed everything from some earlier religion), no matter how much we dislike them, disbelieve them, or think they are false on other grounds.
Oh gosh - I can't believe you linked to Truth Be Known - Acharya S's website. That woman is the biggest quack ever and is one of the main people spreading these fabrications of parallels. She is not anywhere near an authority on these matters and her work is full of blatant falsehood.
Quoting: "Mithras had twelve disciples. This appears to be derived from some iconography in the mithraea where the twelve symbols of the zodiac are arrayed around the scene of Mithras killing the bull. The connection between twelve disciples and twelve signs of the zodiac is made in the book The Jesus Mysteries and by Acharya S (D.Murdock)"
The Jesus Mysteries is a joke of a book. But anyway, the logic here is horrid. Firstly, of course the 12 signs of the Zodiac are found in iconographic depictions of Mithras. The Roman cult was really a ritual about the procession of the equinox. However, nowhere are the signs of the zodiac said to be FOLLOWERS of Mithras. This is utter rubbish. There are 12 eggs in my carton in my fridge. They are not, however, followers of the gallon of milk next to them. The 12 disciples are modeled on the 12 tribes of Israel. Scholars see Jesus' ministry as a eschatological restoration movement within Israel so this makes perfect sense. This has nothing to do with Mithraism.
I'm with you on this one Alex. I agree. I've found nothing about Mithra having 12 disciples. I agree as well that we create meaning too often where there is none. This is something human brains do. Close your eyes, lie down and chances are within 90 minutes you will start to hallucinate. We are primed to be constantly making connections. Sometimes there are real reasons for our connections. Other times, we are only dreaming. Some people dream of Jesus.
"There are 12 eggs in my carton in my fridge. They are not, however, followers of the gallon of milk next to them."
HA! LOL, That was great....Good stuff, cool discussion too.
Peace
Again - they called Yahweh LORD too. It is a common title. This is the height of silliness.
People dream of Jesus, therefore let us make up lies about history.
Sorry - I can't join you in that. People dreaming is not a justification for promulgating fabrications and falsehoods.
I always assumed that the Egyptian Principles of Maat were earlier than Moses the Egyptian.
My source for the Egyptian, by the way, was not originally a web site. I got this idea after reading the Papyrus of Ani (1240 BC), of which for many years I've had the transliteration and translation by E.A. Wallis Budge, Late keeper of Assyrian and Egyptian Antiquities in the British Museum.
But now I'm trying to figure out when Moses supposedly got the 10 commandments and how old the Principles of Maat can be documented...
They are clearly the same thing. Very specific. Bearing false witness? Who is going to come up with that in parallel? Not something that you think of every day. Anyone can read the two and see that they are the same thoughts, same wording.... but the Egyptian version has a lot more detail.
Still, your question of directionality has merit. That is something I should check more carefully. If one is a few hundred years before the other, there would be no question of directionality.
You say nonsense, I say sense. *Shrug* Can't help you I guess. I wish I had a time-machine so I could go back and rub your nose right in it. I know what you'd say, because I've seen this so many times. If I took you back and showed you Moses learning the Principles of Maat from his Egyptian parents before he goes and wanders in the desert, you'd say, "This is not surprising, I knew it all along. He knew them, but god still gave the important ones to him on a tablet, in written form."
Then if I took you forward and showed you Moses being tricked by a friend who had been secretly carving some rocks and then lit a bush on fire and made the voice of god, you'd say, "That's not surprising that Moses was tricked, but God obviously inspired the friend to do this."
And on and on it would go.
The mind, research says, forgets instantly, the times it was wrong and fills in memories as if it was always right. This is why we jump up and down and hoot and holler when politicians are caught lying on video tape. They really believe they never said what they said once the facts show they were once wrong.
Lol as well. Alex, wow, have you read the dead sea scrolls? What ancient languages can you read? Hebrew? Greek? I gave you a primary Mithras source, in English. Mithras was prayed to as Lord hundreds of years before Jesus. So many Lords, so many gods, planets, winds, the sun, the moon, all worshipped in earnest, but only one is the REAL one. Yours, right? ;-) I'm encouraging everyone to consider for a second that the whole idea of "gods" any gods, is the wishful thinking of our sometimes simple superstitious minds.
Lies, oh you mean archeological evidence that contradicts your dogma? Lol
Xeno - the ten commandments are not insignificant. They are simply a commonplace. Borrowing?!!! There is no reason to borrow! Almost every ancient culture everywhere knows you cannot have a peaceful society when there is an allowance for adultery, murder, theft, and Godlessness in general.
This is another common trait of people afflicted with parallelomania. They find commonality in things SO general and basic that they are simply expected to be cross-culturally ubiquitous.
More nonsense.
Xeno - thanks for the big REVELATION. You have proven that there were other gods that were worshiped prior to Christianity.
I'm sure your readers are both shocked and enlightened.
On Xeno's UFO Timeline page, he writes: "Most people rely upon things they’ve heard somewhere (passed on rumors which get exaggerated) and thus, they end up believing hoaxes."
I could not think of a better way to describe what Xeno has fallen for in posting these lists of "pagan parallels" on his blog.
Alex, as with UFOs, you have to look at it on a case by case basis. Some of the pagan parallels are real. Not all. Even the Catholic encyclopedia agrees with me about the date for Christmas. I know this is hard for you. I'm sorry. You've spent years believing a myth and your defense mechanisms are going crazy right now. But take time, take a break from it. Let it sink in.
The "birthday" of Jesus Christ coming from the Sol Invicitus is not a significant pagan parallel? Huh??
All you do is insult and deny. Yawn.
The link provided does not change the fact that not a single historian, philosopher, or scribe who lived during the alleged time of Jesus even mentions him. Crowds and miracles would have been big news. Nice try though.
When did you last read the Codex Sinaiticus? I can't seem to find it in English.
A wild man comes from a man's rib as an act of a god in a detailed pagan story written long before Genesis and you believe this somehow supports the veracity of a much later and much different creation myth. Lol. You lost me there.
The only situation that would support your view is if there was an earlier original monotheistic source for the creation myth and the Epic of Gilgamesh was shown to be a distorted copy of that. No such thing exists, however.
Xeno wrote: The link provided does not change the fact that not a single historian, philosopher, or scribe who lived during the alleged time of Jesus even mentions him. Crowds and miracles would have been big news. Nice try though.
Alex: Since Jesus was just an itinerant preacher from Galilee, we wouldn't expect to hear much of him. In fact, it is very surprising that we have what we do. But NO serious scholar denies that we have traditions tracing back to his earliest followers. We have letters written within a generation by Paul. We have mention of him in Josephus - our most reliable Jewish historian of the time period, and Tacitus - our most reliable Roman historian of the time period.
On creation epics, I don't take them literally because they are clearly mythological. In fact, the Genesis creation story literally adapts other Creation myths and turns them on their head as a type of polemic. I have no problem with that.
So the only argument you might have is against a biblical literalist/fundamentalist, who will simply say "If something like this happened, we'd expect to see the stories disseminated orally."
So really, vs. the liberal or the fundamentalist Christian, you have no argument.
Also - where is the part about the rib in Gilgamesh? Can you quote it? I didn't see it.
Yes, the holidays and more were incorporated over time. The "more" includes beliefs that many Christians see as exclusively theirs. We disagree on which parts of the "more" but that is to be expected given the nature of faith and our inability to travel back in time to verify things. If I'd learned in Sunday school that Christianity was great because it took the best ideas from many different cultures and religions over the years, if my teachers were informed and honest about history, I'd have a different and more compassionate view of my former religion today. How can one story be the word of god, all others be wrong, but they are basically the same story? That teaching, that arrogance, is what gets me fired up.
Posting here, believe it or not, is a fairly efficient means by which I look into things. People with greater experience and knowledge than myself make an appearance, as you did, and I learn a good deal. I've become completely obsessed with researching this over the past few days, and I thank you for sparking my excitement about ancient myths and the history of religion.
I still don't understand how you can say both that pagan parallels are fraudulent and that you borrow dates, beliefs and rituals from pagans. By beliefs, I mean the dualist concept of heaven and hell, for example.
I too apologize for any rudeness on my part. I've enjoyed this lively exchange.
Xeno -
The benefits of online exchange that you reference are exactly the reason that I will dive into them every now and then. I find no better impetus for research than the excitement of a debate like this. The challenge is not to lose your cool when you strongly disagree, and chase your sparring partner away. Learning to disagree *strongly* while still maintaining a level of respect, and even kindness, has been a great challenge for me. But, when I've been able to do it, it has really paid off.
The specific pagan parallels you mention are fraudulent because these pagan deities simply did not do such things, as a matter of historical fact. The later church did indeed take over some of the festivals, rituals, and even personages from paganism, in specific cases (Dec. 25th as the birthday of Christ being one of them). These are also simply a matter of historical fact, and they have no bearing on the latter. If we think in terms of the UFO research community, we know that some people have legitimately had their integrity called into question. This does not tar the reputation of any other group of researchers though. Case by case is the only way to go.
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